tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post7624338307596819185..comments2023-11-05T04:09:53.857-05:00Comments on Something Short and Snappy: The Eye of the World, chapters eleven, twelve, and thirteen, in which Rand's protagonism is revokedErika The Over Queenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03649072707709302370noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-74987027936867706472014-12-23T10:02:49.584-05:002014-12-23T10:02:49.584-05:00I think my view of this series is warped because t...I think my view of this series is warped because the Sanderson books are the only ones I've read in years, and they're sort of lightyears ahead of where the Jordan ones were. The female characters are a lot less broadly drawn and much more interesting to read (no endless braid-tugging). I really haven't touched the Jordan books in ages and I only barely remember them.Drew Humberdnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-30078505906456718602014-12-23T03:06:22.116-05:002014-12-23T03:06:22.116-05:00I kind of had this conversation in the next most r...I kind of had this conversation in the next most recent thread. Bela seems better characterized because her character is never actively offensive. She's a horse. She is a stout and good-hearted horse who pops up at improbable moments throughout the series.<br /><br /><br />In many ways having all of the women in these books be equally inoffensively characterized would be better. I would have had a better reading experience and not felt violently angry all the time. However it would have been, more or less, the solution of just not writing about women. <br /><br /><br /><br />Bela isn't a character at all, she's a prop. She's a pleasant and inoffensive prop. It would be at least as offensive to have all of the women in the books be pleasant props as for them to be horrifying caricatures at least half of the time. It would have just been somewhat easier to read.<br /><br /><br />Mostly I just meant the adventures of an ordinary farm horse at the end of the world would be a thing I'd enjoy reading.Tanzenlichtnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-24353821137387405282014-12-22T18:36:17.376-05:002014-12-22T18:36:17.376-05:00Bela has better characterization than half the hum...Bela has better characterization than half the human women in the world.Drew Humberdnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-31068689366123729372014-12-06T22:21:09.486-05:002014-12-06T22:21:09.486-05:00Trollocs are an interesting study in evoking writi...Trollocs are an interesting study in evoking writing goals. At the very least Jordan seemed to be aware of the issue, since there are eventual in text explanations for their fluctuating power levels. I rate the retcons as "noticeable, somewhat clumsy, relatively logical". <br /><br />The myrdraal are more consistent and make for an interesting barometer for how badass the heroes are becoming. So that's nicely done. But then they end up feeling pretty superfluous, which on the one hand ok great, our hero is Superjesus and the tension in the story isn't "but is he the strongest!!!?" but rather "people suck and politics are hard". Which is interesting, but then you have these weenie nazguls running around looking ridiculous, the sense of threat goes right out the window in a lot of scenes.the thousand lakesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-15853827897492962582014-12-06T20:37:42.401-05:002014-12-06T20:37:42.401-05:00That kind of thing really annoys me - either write...That kind of thing really annoys me - either write consistently horrifying minion critters who are a genuine threat to the heroes and capable of actually harming them and frightening them, or write wet cardboard minion critters who are only dangerous in that they are minions of the big bad. I know it's a common problem in fantasy (and adventure and...well, pretty much anything with fight scenes), but <i>come on</i>. You can show that your heroes are more highly skilled - if they are - without reducing your monsters to tissue paper.depizannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-58306861293714431262014-12-06T08:03:38.423-05:002014-12-06T08:03:38.423-05:00I'm thinking of a battle in the silmarillion w...I'm thinking of a battle in the silmarillion where the orcs are hemmed in between armies and a river, resulting in mass drownings. Which, admittedly, is just sort of how that tends to go with medieval battles, but I think there's a line afterwards along the lines of "and that's why orca hate water, kiddos". I think Aragorn mentions the river would slow the wraiths down, which I'm conflating with their eventual watery doom, but you're right - rivers DO tend to slow horses down for reasons that are less than supernatural, so his comment just makes basic sense. <br />Yeah, the Nazgul are actually a lot more interesting than the myrdraal. It's the subtle things that make them creepy. Whereas with Fades the way people react to them is really interesting and superstitios and so on, but they get less interesting the more you learn about them. Trollocs are very unevenly written. When they aren't around main characters they get some legitimately horrifying scenes, only to turn into wet cardboard and rags when someone important shows up.the thousand lakesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-8143748355476707412014-12-05T22:27:21.192-05:002014-12-05T22:27:21.192-05:00Huh, that is really interesting! Do they dislike r...Huh, that is really interesting! Do they dislike running water in the final draft, or am I remembering that wrong? Maybe it's just that orcs can't swim or something, I forget.the thousand lakesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-77254241046430134842014-12-05T17:54:30.295-05:002014-12-05T17:54:30.295-05:00BTW, as I understand it Tolkien originally wanted ...BTW, as I understand it Tolkien originally wanted to have the ringwraiths fear all running water--but after thinking about the logistics for a while, he realized this would be pretty ridiculous if they're supposed to be traveling all over the continent on Sekrit Evil Missions. So instead they're just vulnerable to huge-ass magical floods, and they can still hop a regular river without a problem.Anton_Matesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-56266584752927885812014-12-03T15:53:21.473-05:002014-12-03T15:53:21.473-05:00As a lifelong fan of Animal Man's ability to s...As a lifelong fan of Animal Man's ability to solve all situations with dubiously appropriate documentary-proven abilities, I think the Forces of Darkness should be trapped in an off-axis ring of expectorating archerfish.Anton_Matesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-85096892741527385352014-12-03T15:45:05.089-05:002014-12-03T15:45:05.089-05:00Bored of the Rings. <3Bored of the Rings. <3Tanzenlichtnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-46217020954378601452014-12-03T15:05:04.545-05:002014-12-03T15:05:04.545-05:00If no one has written a comedy fantasy where the F...If no one has written a comedy fantasy where the Forces of Darkness are trapped by waterbender moats, someone really <i>should</i>. :Ddepizannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-77145959540486643002014-12-03T13:23:26.092-05:002014-12-03T13:23:26.092-05:00Seems like the story would work better if the evil...Seems like the story would work better if the evil armies or their makers just volunteered, and the Dark One was largely indifferent to them.<br /><br /><br /><br />"So you made me soldiers that can't cross water? Aren't you a precious little thing! Now go and play with Yahu-Wahu, I've got adult business to take care of."hfnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-18620475336839130282014-12-03T12:31:56.676-05:002014-12-03T12:31:56.676-05:00"Earth, Wind, Fire, Water, and Spirit"
W..."Earth, Wind, Fire, Water, and Spirit"<br />Wow, it must have taken Jordan YEARS to work out the intricacies of this magic system.GeniusLemurnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-46737178790376534732014-12-03T12:14:27.652-05:002014-12-03T12:14:27.652-05:00Finished the series. It was dumb. I'm almost n...Finished the series. It was dumb. I'm almost not even mad any more.<br /><br /><br />No, that's not true, I'm super mad. Where do I even find other people who were ridiculous enough to read the whole thing, but also hate it like I hate it?Tanzenlichtnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-26006729812307471132014-12-03T02:01:07.046-05:002014-12-03T02:01:07.046-05:00Yeah, I don't have a problem with it as a gene...Yeah, I don't have a problem with it as a generic weakness of supernatural evil critters (though it seems a little...earthy? for the sort of extradimensional, transcendental power that the Dark One embodies.)<br /><br />But when those critters are deliberately engineered, mass-produced super-soldiers--no, fail. Go back to regular humans, who may be more stabbable but can also do amazing things like "wading."<br /><br />By the way, since channelers can manipulate water, can they imprison Shadowspawn armies by weaving a moat around them?Anton_Matesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-53049600897509147922014-12-02T21:37:01.116-05:002014-12-02T21:37:01.116-05:00Well, running water was frequently seen as somethi...Well, running water was frequently seen as something that evil creatures/spirits could not cross in folklore. Since Jordan has taken every bit of myth and folklore he could find and thrown it into a blender for his worldbuilding, I'm not totally surprised that that bit shows up here. But it doesn't really make sense here without any further explanation.Lady Viridisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-79924260595456422502014-12-02T09:33:53.318-05:002014-12-02T09:33:53.318-05:00And in broad strokes, Egwene's story is one of...And in broad strokes, Egwene's story is one of the cooler ones, though sadly marred by the series' greatest flaw - Jordan's apparent belief that everyone behaves like a high school gender stereotype forever. With perhaps some bonus aggravation for sneaking personal fetishes in just because, which sometimes undermine the author's stated feminist intentions.the thousand lakesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-48854143004955742112014-12-01T22:10:37.530-05:002014-12-01T22:10:37.530-05:00(Also, how much does Rand know about what people s...(Also, how much does Rand know about what people sound like while being murdered with sharp knives? Has he been hanging out with Wickerman al'Summerisle?) <br /><br />Well, Lovecraft was the king of similes that had nothing to do with what he'd actually encountered in his personal life. Maybe Rand's the same way--nervous, jumpy and prone to imagining every bad thing that might be happening in gory detail. Would help to explain why he's not a natural hero...<br /><br />Moiraine cloaks them all with thick noise-cancelling fog (Rand spends half a page angsting about the health risks of breathing in girl-magic)<br /><br />I'm going to assume that she generates the fog from her swimsuit region, by opening and closing her knees really fast. Just to mess with him.<br /><br /><br />There must be a difference in what you saw, it seemed to him, depending on whether you sought adventure or had it forced on you. The stories could no doubt make galloping through a cold fog, with a Draghkar and the Light alone knew what else chasing you, sound thrilling. Egwene might be feeling a thrill; he only felt cold and damp and glad to have a village around him again, even if it was Taren Ferry.<br /><br />I find it interesting that Rand can only imagine self-centered reactions to the situation. Either you think adventures are fun so you're thrilled, or you think adventures are scary and uncomfortable so you're grumpy. It hasn't occurred to him that Egwene might not be particularly interested in adventure <i>either</i>; maybe she's more interested in whether their plan is working or not. She could be happy to see the Draghkar, not because getting chased by Draghkars is fun, but because it means that the bad guys took the bait. In which case they probably won't go back to scour the countryside and and murder everyone she's ever known.<br /><br />Of course, self-centeredness would not necessarily reflect terribly on Rand. They're both teenagers, but Egwene's a teenager apprenticed to a local political leader and public servant. She's probably had a lot more practice thinking in terms of social responsibility than he has.<br /><br />On the far bank, Lan pays up, tips the pullers individually, and pays more when a 'freak whirlpool' obliterates the ferry they've just stepped off, such that, as Moiraine unsubtly points out, no one else will be able to cross for a while.<br /><br />...Does this imply that the roving armies of evil don't know how to cross a river without the help of a human ferryboat? This does not improve my opinion of the Shadowspawn.<br /><br />(It seems kind of dickish if there's likely to be further violence in the countryside, too. How are human refugees supposed to escape across the river now?)Anton_Matesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-34686030487192799312014-12-01T18:49:46.217-05:002014-12-01T18:49:46.217-05:00If you think this is misandry just wait until the ...If you think this is misandry just wait until the Slytherin Red Ajah turns up.Thomas Keytonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-73776804777948783912014-12-01T15:56:41.775-05:002014-12-01T15:56:41.775-05:00I dunno, I feel like if Egwene were the protagonis...I dunno, I feel like if Egwene were the protagonist the story would turn into wacky over-the-top misandry:<br /><br /><i>Well, it was the men, but they were no more wicked than any men.</i><br /><br /><br />I'm actually getting flashbacks to *(^^% Xanth. The series that proves misandry can go hand in hand with traditional sexism against women.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />(And no, Firefox spell-checker, I don't see what "Melisandra" has to do with anything.)hfnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-20487135706797007552014-12-01T03:26:20.515-05:002014-12-01T03:26:20.515-05:00The book about Egwene the Chosen One is a much bet...The book about Egwene the Chosen One is a much better book. I kind of just want to read the book about what Bela is up to the whole time. She keeps showing up at improbable moments.Tanzenlichtnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-70125807786777728072014-11-30T21:24:58.489-05:002014-11-30T21:24:58.489-05:00My head canon now includes this book being printed...My head canon now includes this book being printed in about a size 16 or 18 font so that when Rand recaps everything that JUST happened for a couple of pages, it's a lot shorter, Still completely unnecessary, but shorter. Why didn't Jordan's editor edit?<br />Why does Rand secretly hope no one noticed him drawing his sword when the draghkar shows up? Does he think it would be better for everyone to see him as too afraid to move? Or some other reason for not being willing to attempt to defend himself rather than trying, however ineffectively?Kaynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-70238955447899525592014-11-30T18:28:16.937-05:002014-11-30T18:28:16.937-05:00Oh, weekend RPGs! How I miss you!
I had a charac...Oh, weekend RPGs! How I miss you!<br /><br /><br />I had a character generation session with my friends in September. We have yet to actually play the game-- everybody's so busy with other things.<br /><br /><br />What's your RPG of choice?JReynoldsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-33478624304829201452014-11-30T17:37:53.555-05:002014-11-30T17:37:53.555-05:00In fact, since some parts of the later books are f...In fact, since some parts of the later books are from Egwene's point of view, she is the protagonist sometimes. As the series goes along, sooner or later, every character in the team right now has storylines of their own where they're driving the show.John Bilesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-2225184457104825482014-11-30T17:24:57.162-05:002014-11-30T17:24:57.162-05:00personally I'm finding it easier to take this ...personally I'm finding it easier to take this by inserting random bits from Bored of the Rings. Next up in the inn, Rand orders four Orca Colas when the waiter-wraith asks if they want anything to RING oh I mean DRINKCharles Raniernoreply@blogger.com