tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post7071325852790008080..comments2023-11-05T04:09:53.857-05:00Comments on Something Short and Snappy: Ender's Game, chapter eight, part one, in which JjjjeeeewwwwwwsErika The Over Queenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03649072707709302370noreply@blogger.comBlogger40125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-88224084647454051562013-09-19T19:24:50.443-04:002013-09-19T19:24:50.443-04:00Leeeeeroyyyyy Jenkiiiiiiiiins!
*snorts soda*Leeeeeroyyyyy Jenkiiiiiiiiins!<br /><br /><br />*snorts soda*Ana Mardollhttp://www.anamardoll.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-86514178193609920482013-09-16T13:48:59.808-04:002013-09-16T13:48:59.808-04:00I am not sure that Card isn't very-very closet...I am not sure that Card isn't very-very closeted homosexual, at this point. You know the type that is so closeted they get aggressive towards other gay people just for being gay? :D I love your re-caps.Thea Karannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-68281393570969499542013-09-02T04:32:37.614-04:002013-09-02T04:32:37.614-04:00Yes, but that fact is super duper double-comic top...Yes, but that fact is super duper double-comic top secret, so there definitely would not be an official Triumivrate position for their command. Official party line is that the entire human fleet is hanging out around the orbit of Saturn, waiting to intercept the inevitable Third Invasion of aliens (which isn't going to happen, and no fleet exists to stop them anyway).Will Wildmanhttp://somethingshortandsnappy.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-10800581255499046032013-09-01T20:20:51.522-04:002013-09-01T20:20:51.522-04:00> Apparently the Polemarch is commander of the ...> Apparently the Polemarch is commander of the International Fleet and the<br /> Strategos is in charge of the defence of the solar system, but since <br />there are no humans outside the solar system at the time of Ender's <br />Game... yeah, I dunno either.<br /><br /><br />I know it's been a long time since I've read _Ender's Game_, but weren't there thousands of humans outside the solar system, patiently traveling to all the Bugger solar system to blow them up?gwernhttp://www.gwern.net/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-83907155956868727052013-08-11T12:58:31.442-04:002013-08-11T12:58:31.442-04:00Students of WWII could note that another group cal...Students of WWII could note that another group called rats were the Allied Forces in the trenches. They responded by taking up the rat as a proud mascot.<br />Some cultures have viewed the rat as a symbol of luck.<br />Someone who's looking for an image that's, perhaps, subversively warrior. Rats have a reputation for being nasty fighters who do anything to survive/win.<br />Someone with an understanding of evolutionary history could understand that the rat (or at least a rat-like rodent) has existed since at least the time of the dinosaurs and, through adaptive eating habits, breeding, and relatively simple behaviors, has survived longer than any known mammal.<br />As a warrior role model, the rat has a lot going for it.WingedBeastnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-73425209929442797622013-08-09T12:15:54.559-04:002013-08-09T12:15:54.559-04:00I may be misremembering the price; it wouldn't...I may be misremembering the price; it wouldn't surprise me if titans cost about $300,000, actually, though I thought that was the total price tag of that unscheduled battle at the beginning of this year.<br /><br />Um... could you elaborate a bit on the 'extant, although minute, chance that you will actually be killed' part? I take it you don't mean being podded in the game. I mean, I know that one person was driven to suicide from harrassment instigated by one of an alliance's leaders, but has anyone really been killed -- I mean, really, RL, killed -- over corp drama in EVE?VMinknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-81787914163428411542013-08-07T17:56:41.864-04:002013-08-07T17:56:41.864-04:00Last I checked, the Titans were worth about $300,0...Last I checked, the Titans were worth about $300,000, making a major action only marginally less expensive than an actual battle. That's a little bit different than WoT or WoW, since 'insane hell of libertarianism' is the designer's *objective*, and if you lose a corporation's expensive ship, there is a good chance you will be blacklisted and no longer be able to play. There is also an extant, although minute, chance that you will actually be killed - it has happened before!BaseDeltaZeronoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-72236624519385933522013-08-07T15:18:14.161-04:002013-08-07T15:18:14.161-04:00You see this to an almost extreme degree in EVE On...You see this to an almost extreme degree in EVE Online. Well... you normally see it. Because every so often, there's an article in the gaming news (or frickin' FORBES, for crying out loud) about someone loosing what is (with a poor grasp of the exchange rate and method) 3000 real dollars in virtual ship(s). And then people are very very careful with their unique, unusual ships.VMinknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-8718757218679578562013-08-06T20:13:21.144-04:002013-08-06T20:13:21.144-04:00See, this is why when I first heard the rumor Holl...See, this is why when I first heard the rumor Hollywood was making this movie, I said no way. <br />No way would Hollywood make a movie about naked 6-year-old murderers. And it looks like I was right. I completely understand why they are doing it, it's just irking me. I didn't know they were removing Stilson and I've got to wonder how much of Ender's "I'm the most special snowflake ever!" attitude is going to be present.Kaynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-91461747251659165452013-08-06T16:08:11.576-04:002013-08-06T16:08:11.576-04:00I can't fault Card for aging up the characters...I can't fault Card for aging up the characters for the movie. There are so many reasons--in practical terms, it's a lot easier to find a talented 14-year-old dramatic actor than a 6-year-old; in moral terms, it's a lot easier for audiences to potentially buy into the heroic necessity of the child soldiers if they're teenagers instead of primary schoolers. Just like the removal of Stilson from the movie, I think people would have a much harder time with 6-year-old students if they had to actually see them rather than just read about them.Will Wildmanhttp://somethingshortandsnappy.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-68519744097023395732013-08-06T16:04:32.504-04:002013-08-06T16:04:32.504-04:00I think there are two things at play that explain ...I think there are two things at play that explain Ender's apparent inconsistency.<br /><br /><br />First, he knew from the first moment in Salamander that he was going to be shoved to the margins and not given any real chance to participate, but he thought Rat was going to change that (Dink Meeker being awesome and all) and instead in his first game he's given what seems to be, once again, orders that take him out of the actual game (instead of being a nonentity, he's a free kill). So if we assume, as I think makes sense, that Ender actually wants to play the game properly, this is irritating for him.<br /><br /><br />Second, though, is that Ender is very quietly self-righteous as hell. One of the reasons that he wants to play the game so much is that (regardless of his insecurities) he has the Wounded Loner Geek's bone-level conviction that he is totally awesome and other people are holding him back. The narrative lets him show this in other ways (his total overwhelming victory in the game room on day one, or the way people like Bonzo apparently recognise him as Dangerously Awesome on sight), but he is held back in the battleroom. Sort of. I mean, this is only his third game and he turns a suicide order into a game-revolutionising surprise attack, so whether he's being held back or not is kind of up for debate, but in theory he could still be even more awesome if they would just let him.Will Wildmanhttp://somethingshortandsnappy.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-51244956590051010862013-08-06T15:53:33.734-04:002013-08-06T15:53:33.734-04:00Hm, true. -I'm- not a very competitive person,...Hm, true. -I'm- not a very competitive person, so I have a lot of trouble relating to the super competitive. I just don't get it. But it's not clear to me if Ender is supposed to be super competitive - we get a lot about how he's smart and the one and what not, but he's willing to do things that potentially diminish his awesomeness (like telling Rose that part of his standing was due to stupid orders he'd followed). If Ender had been clearly played up as an egotistical must be first place sort of guy, I'd be less puzzled by his flake out over being ordered to charge the enemy. But he's taken other equally potentially bad for his image orders much calmer in the past, so I just don't know. He doesn't exactly have a consistent personality.depizannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-13375656428860065672013-08-06T14:31:23.923-04:002013-08-06T14:31:23.923-04:00"And why is Ender so pissed at being asked to..."And why is Ender so pissed at being asked to charge the enemy? It's a GAME, a simulation, not actual suicide. Hell, some people might even view it as an opportunity to just have fun, since the expectations are pretty well out the window on that order. Leeeeeroyyyyy Jenkiiiiiiiiins!"<br /><br /><br />You might think so, but I've seen people freak out in lesser situations. For instance, I play World of Tanks, and you'd be surprised how many people will absolutely refuse to risk their precious internet tanks, even when it might win the team the game (instead opting to hide behind a cliff as everyone is destroyed piecemeal). Or, say, the people in WoW who will *flip out* if something goes wrong during a raid. You might not be losing much anything of importance, but you're still *losing*. And if you're convinced you're awesome, it means they're taking away from the awesome stuff you could be doing instead.BaseDeltaZeronoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-13711604901789624682013-08-06T14:24:20.719-04:002013-08-06T14:24:20.719-04:00Agreed. Of course, now we're back to "fut...Agreed. Of course, now we're back to "future military brilliance is totally something you can recognize in a six year old."GeniusLemurnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-26730720612830462502013-08-06T14:12:53.977-04:002013-08-06T14:12:53.977-04:00Carn Carby? Seriously? What, was "Rory Strali...Carn Carby? Seriously? What, was "Rory Stralis" taken? :-PCharles Raniernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-65461968380453607702013-08-06T14:10:58.934-04:002013-08-06T14:10:58.934-04:00there's a pretty good state college football t...there's a pretty good state college football team called the "banana slugs." California, naturally. Their slogan: No Known Predator.Charles Raniernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-11436209331816170872013-08-06T13:55:39.908-04:002013-08-06T13:55:39.908-04:00We never get a count of the total number of studen...We never get a count of the total number of students or armies at Battle School, but it does seem like they mostly avoid the traditional obvious Warrior animals, only to randomly throw in blatantly fantastical ones when dramatically wanted. Trying to think of all of them--Salamander, Rat, Centipede, Badger, Ocelot, Spider, Scorpion, Condor, and then stuff like Griffin, Manticore, Phoenix, and of course Dragon for Ender (which Card tries to downplay by asserting that every past Dragon Army has been terrible and people got superstitious about the name being cursed, so clearly it's not blatantly improperly awesome).Will Wildmanhttp://somethingshortandsnappy.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-43470936231416158612013-08-06T13:53:12.994-04:002013-08-06T13:53:12.994-04:00If I were imagining a military school for children...If I were imagining a military school for children (ew), I could see an argument for keeping things as fair as possible for the younger ages, knowing they still have Tactical and Command Schools ahead of them when they get older, and knowing that actual young children don't always grasp big perspectives well. But even then, having 'non-season' games that were specifically meant to test unfair scenarios seems like a good idea.Will Wildmanhttp://somethingshortandsnappy.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-14774368902114043722013-08-06T13:50:03.299-04:002013-08-06T13:50:03.299-04:00The problem isn't that Ender is getting scenar...The problem isn't that Ender is getting scenarios that are stacked against him. It's that everybody else isn't. In real military training, especially for elite forces, they're going to get exercises where they're outnumbered, outgunned, and short on ammo, because training for when everything goes your way is a sure-fire recipe for disaster. And the extra platoon your opponents have may or may not be mentioned in the briefing, because on the battlefield you may not have the luxury of knowing you're outnumbered beforehand. <br /><br />To give you an idea how real combat school works, when my friend was in the navy, he was in a training exercise against Navy SEALS. His whole group was volunteers from various desk jobs. The idea was that a combat with guys who don't know what they're doing will unfold differently that combat with guys who do.GeniusLemurnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-56512553863497580462013-08-06T13:36:43.390-04:002013-08-06T13:36:43.390-04:00For that matter, who's going to name their tea...For that matter, who's going to name their team after a pest like that, especially at a prestigious military academy? Is there an NFL team called the Rats? The Cockroaches? The pigeons? The Locusts?GeniusLemurnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-59873287386323154602013-08-06T09:34:43.236-04:002013-08-06T09:34:43.236-04:00Yes, that conversation comes next and only got cut...Yes, that conversation comes next and only got cut off from this post because I wanted to flip off Card, basically.<br /><br /><br />But they are definitely naked under the flash suits--it's implied so far and outright stated later in Ender's Game and Ender's Shadow that the flash suit goes on instead of a regular uniform, not in addition to. And, as we've seen, the First Invasion devastated Earth's underwear-producing capacity so severely that to this day their most brilliant textile theorists haven't yet been able to recreate the thing once called 'boxer shorts'.Will Wildmanhttp://somethingshortandsnappy.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-69672875366971802222013-08-06T09:30:01.547-04:002013-08-06T09:30:01.547-04:00Ye gods, I hadn't even thought of the rat prop...Ye gods, I hadn't even thought of the rat propaganda aspect. That is so much worse than I realised.Will Wildmanhttp://somethingshortandsnappy.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-10799431173339539932013-08-06T05:18:20.534-04:002013-08-06T05:18:20.534-04:00No, no, the unfair training program needs to shape...No, no, the unfair training program needs to shape Ender in a precise way. And as someone who may be Anderson says later, "We told the computer that our highest priority was having the subject remain useful after the training program." The computer knows all about Ender's mind through the Mind Game.<br /><br /><br /><br />Now the punchline: Graff, who plans to impose stress on Ender <b>beyond what the computer knows about</b>, and do so without consulting his auto-psychiatrist, says he has misgivings. He pictures Ender worn out at the end. Guess what he does about this. Guess what results.<br /><br /><br />I've been asking "However did they win." Maybe I should be asking specifically why the Mind Game program hasn't eaten the Solar System for computing power (since more power might allow it to answer Anderson's questions more fully). At least that one has an answer.hfnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-35882254799128120702013-08-06T05:00:02.385-04:002013-08-06T05:00:02.385-04:00Exactly. I keep coming back to this problem and sp...Exactly. I keep coming back to this problem and specifically the question, "Hyrum Graff, who the fuck are you?"<br /><br /><br />I still think Card must disagree with his villain (Graff) on some allegedly fundamental point(s). And yet I keep accidentally using the author's name for the character. That suggests a failure of writing. (Or I'm missing something big.) Why does Graff act like he has a direct line to the author? How did he prove it to the Polemarch?<br /><br /><br /><br />As far as Ender's anger goes, I think he cares about his battle standings and doesn't want to see his numbers go down too far. (He may also have hoped to have left this abuse behind, though that would make him a slow learner.) As for why he cares - but Super-villain Graff manipulated him into caring. So we're back to Problem One.<br /><br /><br />Thinking out loud: maybe this example can help us analyze the problem? Graff's allegedly an educator. So it makes some sense that he could manipulate a child in this particular way. More generally, educators and parental figures can easily find themselves arguing, correctly, against people who may be smarter than they are in certain ways. The adults have more information (and more developed brains). Card probably also believes that children should accept the absurd religious beliefs their adult authorities impose on them. Although his Alvin does share my experience of hearing an authority figure blather about God sitting atop the Topless Throne (even if Alvin doesn't try to interpret this by placing the throne on its side). And wait, if Graff has special insight into reality as a result of teaching children, then why does he fall down* at precisely the task of shaping Ender? We've already seen part of this with Alai. I could hand-wave this to save my reasoning, but I think this paragraph has lost its way.<br /><br /><br />*Strand himself in the middle of the Battle Room with no momentum or rockets?hfnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-80822824306441787842013-08-06T01:04:41.346-04:002013-08-06T01:04:41.346-04:00Neither of those orders were actually valid, as fa...Neither of those orders were actually valid, as far as I could tell (it would, in fact, be damn bizarre if the head of one of those groups <i>could</i> order their subordinates to not do their school work, but this is a millitary training school that doesn't seem to believe in training, so hell if I know). But that probably is what Card was going for.<br /><br />Ender's reaction just seems over the top, but then Ender generally reacts oddly.depizannoreply@blogger.com