tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post6057052894405023284..comments2023-11-05T04:09:53.857-05:00Comments on Something Short and Snappy: Ender's Game, chapter ten, in which Ender rejects redemption and loses his boyfriendErika The Over Queenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03649072707709302370noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-73226704259217919482013-09-18T20:36:18.453-04:002013-09-18T20:36:18.453-04:00Ender (and/or Card) seems to have the ideas of nev...Ender (and/or Card) seems to have the ideas of never saying "I don't know" and "stay wrong" down pat...its the second part that seems to be badly missing from the equation. We don't see Ender preparing for all plausible scenarios, we just see him either being right or staying wrong. (Which, because author, still works...somehow.) The end result is, I don't look at Ender and see a good example of military leadership; I look at him and see someone who would order his troops to march across a bridge that wasn't there any more. (Fill in the Grand Canyon, a flood swollen river, or other non-crossable thing.)<br /><br /><br />(And, honestly, we'd all like infallible leaders. Or at least ones who are prepared if reality doesn't match up to their plans.)depizannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-86653279148592539552013-09-18T20:14:31.901-04:002013-09-18T20:14:31.901-04:00Makes sense to me. One veteran once said that the...Makes sense to me. One veteran once said that there was one consistent response in the army to any situation, which was "Execute the plan". This was repeated a lot in order to make the silent first rule clear, which was "Have a plan for everything".Will Wildmanhttp://somethingshortandsnappy.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-18115481688562623472013-09-18T19:58:57.003-04:002013-09-18T19:58:57.003-04:00You both have very good points, depizan and Kay, a...You both have very good points, depizan and Kay, and I did not mean to imply that the military conflates "infallible" with "decisive." I can, however, see why it would seem that way; and, I have had my fair share of bad "leaders" who did not know the difference. First of all, most militaries don't admit they want infallible leaders; rather, they just train us never to say "I don't know" and to "stay wrong."<br /><br /><br />The military really does want infallible leaders. Of course, nobody is, so we are trained to plan for the most likely and most dangerous situations in every plausible scenario; that way, when a retreat becomes necessary, we can (semi-legitimately) claim that it was all part of our plan from the start.Boron10noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-72974572166047651342013-09-14T11:12:28.214-04:002013-09-14T11:12:28.214-04:00I would definitely agree that their relationship i...I would definitely agree that their relationship is not <i>necessarily</i> sexual, and obviously Card only intended it to be highly emotionally charged without any sexual component. That said, I think the romantic/protosexual reading is also entirely valid, and if one does want to indicate that kind of relationship, having Ender lying on his bed in the darkness remembering that one time Alai kissed him is about as direct as it can get. And I don't think that media is exactly lacking for strong friendships/platonic partnerships between men--see, for example, everything Aaron Sorkin will ever write. (A lot of these friendships are between otherwise terrible people, but, well, Ender is a murderer, so we're a bit stuck here too.)Will Wildmanhttp://somethingshortandsnappy.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-26690268533279663942013-09-14T00:35:23.389-04:002013-09-14T00:35:23.389-04:00Actually, I don't think Ender's relationsh...Actually, I don't think Ender's relationship with Alai necessarily has a sexual component. So far what has been described (non sexual kissing, an intense emotional connection, etc) can fall within the confines of a queerplatonic relationship. <br /><br /><br /><br />I've had a couple of those myself; there's hugging, cuddling, and MAYBE non sexual kissing, though I'm not quite a fan of that one. There is intense emotional connection and intimacy, but not a sexual or romantic component. <br /><br /><br /><br />That, to me, is what it seems like is going on here. We do need more positive homosexual protagonists in media. However, I also think we need more Queerplatonic partnerships portrayed in media which do not evolve into romantic/sexual connections. <br /><br /><br /><br />Not every intense emotional relationship is romantic and/or sexual.Trynnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-64405425363025027732013-09-11T18:42:41.355-04:002013-09-11T18:42:41.355-04:00I defer to your lived experience on the words the ...I defer to your lived experience on the words the military uses but I agree with Depizan in that I do not think that word means what they think it means (sorry, couldn't resist). I absolutely agree that no competent military would abide indecisiveness. I don't think that is the same thing as a leader being able to admit that there are times when a retreat or other unplanned action is necessary.Kaynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-70228705100586750582013-09-11T14:45:49.107-04:002013-09-11T14:45:49.107-04:00we have reached the halfway pointWe've also re...we have reached the halfway pointWe've also reached the point where the original 1977 story started. (Ender already physically and socially bullies Bean in the story.) FWIW, the story can be read for free on Card's Hatrack.com website.Steve Morrisonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-266481396192723962013-09-10T17:50:24.026-04:002013-09-10T17:50:24.026-04:00It's almost like the author knows that abused ...It's almost like the author knows that abused children recapitulate their abuse on others, but doesn't really get WHY.Elliott Masonhttp://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/commentlist-oneauthor.php?commentid=1406616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-48846290125715254712013-09-10T13:37:45.257-04:002013-09-10T13:37:45.257-04:00Boy, there's a lot of "I'm the boss a...Boy, there's a lot of "I'm the boss and you're worthless" dialogue, isn't there? When he wrote this, Card must have run done to the grocery store for a twenty-four pack of "Drill Sergeant Yelling."<br />Generic brand.GeniusLemurnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-24986726154475230462013-09-10T03:43:25.022-04:002013-09-10T03:43:25.022-04:00That parenthetical is where it all goes horribly w...That parenthetical is where it all goes horribly wrong in the civilian world. Though between that and your example, I'm left with the sense that in the military "infallible" means "definite." One can be decisive without being determined to stick to something that isn't working and unable to ever say either "I was wrong" or "Time for Plan B." (And it is not at all clear to me that Ender understands that. After all Patton didn't say "A <i>bad</i> plan...")depizannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-64651243784795488862013-09-10T01:57:24.310-04:002013-09-10T01:57:24.310-04:00Talk to any real and competent soldier, anywhere. ...<i>Talk to any real and competent soldier, anywhere. Ask them if <br />directionless fear, mistrust, anger, and a disconnection from their <br />comrades makes a soldier more effective. Please upload their reaction <br />to youtube.</i><br /><br />BWAHAHA<br /><br />Now since I did find this passage puzzling when I first read it (along with the whole idea of Ender imitating evil robot-minion Graff), I'm pretty sure we should read this as the abuse trying to perpetuate itself, with flimsy rationalizations. Except Ender forms a better relationship with Bean before he really understands what's been happening. Well, OK, he would really have to work in order to mistreat Bean that much - he doesn't even <i>have</i> a surgeon to stick foreign objects in the younger boy's nervous system, and who would he make his subject kill?<br /><br /><br />But it still puzzles me slightly.<br /><br /><br />One point I was always clear on: the "teachers" are evil, and they basically win. I guess if Ender has a true victory in this book it would be turning against his assigned role as an adult.hfnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-49065784150829667682013-09-10T01:37:18.923-04:002013-09-10T01:37:18.923-04:00Yeah. I want to say that this refers to Ender lovi...Yeah. I want to say that this refers to Ender loving the Hive Queen, as he ultimately does. The sequels do add to this - although fair warning, what seemed at first like clever treatment of genuinely strange aliens may turn into Straw Alien-ing.hfnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-79090489042565177952013-09-09T22:03:33.429-04:002013-09-09T22:03:33.429-04:00I am a 16-year military officer who rose through t...I am a 16-year military officer who rose through the enlisted ranks. I have both leadership training and experience, as well as the "faceless mook" perspective.<br /><br />The military wants infallible commanders. Barring that, the military wants those who can fake it. Anybody who went through basic military training (enlisted or officer) will agree that a common mantra from the drill instructors was, "if you're wrong, stay wrong!" The point they're trying to convey is that it's better to stick to a "good enough" course of action than to change to a better one in the middle of the action.<br /><br />Frequently, decisiveness is more important than brilliance. As General Patton famously said, "A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week."<br /><br /><br /><br />(Of course I do not intend to trivialize the necessary understanding when a plan becomes no longer even "good enough." That necessitates appropriate modifications, frequently based upon the recommendations of subordinates.)<br /><br /><br />In other words, the military *wants* us to be infallible. The military cannot abide a commander who says, "I could be wrong, but maybe we should go charge that hill. What do you think, Sergeant?"Boron10noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-42771104674103571272013-09-09T12:11:20.607-04:002013-09-09T12:11:20.607-04:00Which still doesn't make much sense, and makes...Which still doesn't make much sense, and makes the inclusion of friendship in the paragraph even more confusing, since its basically about how being superior and alone makes him better. ... Man, Will really is right about the target audience.depizannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-1179424539912709662013-09-09T09:05:48.420-04:002013-09-09T09:05:48.420-04:00Eros is real, but it's also hardly the only as...Eros is real, but it's also hardly the only asteroid out there, and Card makes note of all the features that had to be changed about it in order to make it functional, so I think it's reasonable to conclude that he picked Eros for a reason. Granted, it's one of the closest major asteroids, but it's already established early in the book that humanity has stuff going on in the Belt proper, so why not Hektor or Iris or something? (Plus, basically everything in this book appears to be symbolic on a very simple level, so I would be surprised if Eros were the exception. Card also enjoys discussing the types of love, with regular references to agape in the Shadow series.)Will Wildmanhttp://somethingshortandsnappy.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-44548036543185885232013-09-08T20:29:33.011-04:002013-09-08T20:29:33.011-04:00I think it's the having to prove that he was b...I think it's the having to prove that he was better than everyone else that's supposed to be making him the better soldier, not the respect and friendship that he won.rikalousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-54099762497955972032013-09-08T20:24:37.380-04:002013-09-08T20:24:37.380-04:00Eros is a real place! http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...Eros is a real place! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/433_Eros So I think it's entirely possible that Card wasn't consciously trying for anything symbolic there.<br /><br /><br />The rest of his decisions still continue to make very little sense.Matt Smitnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-34338235577668089052013-09-08T20:19:34.907-04:002013-09-08T20:19:34.907-04:00is projecting an aura of infallibility (especially...<i>is projecting an aura of infallibility (especially when your subordinates already think you're screwing up) really that vital to leadership?</i><br /><br />Nope. Granted, I don't have leadership <i>training</i>, but I have management experience, as well as plenty of experience <i>being</i> managed - though in civilian jobs - but... NOPE. Managers who were well liked and respected admitted their mistakes, asked for help when needed, and helped - no task beneath them - when needed. I am willing to be that soldiers are just as likely as civilians to see right through people who pretend their screw ups aren't screw ups. Possibly even more likely to.<br /><br />I'll cut Ender a little slack, since the leadership he's had demonstrated to him has been all over the place and some of it's been pretty terrible, but <i>Card</i> should know better. (Unless he's never had a job?)<br /><br /><i>To make him prove, not that he was competent, but that he was far better than everyone else. That was the only way he could win respect and friendship. It made him a better soldier than he would ever have been otherwise. It also made him lonely, afraid, angry, untrusting. And maybe those traits, too, made him a better soldier.</i><br /><br /><br /><br />I realize this is supposed to be train of consciousness, but it changes direction in the middle their so fast I think there was a sonic boom. Setting aside for a moment that the concept of having to be better than everyone else in order to make friends and win respect actually makes <i>negative</i> sense, it basically goes "I'm better than everybody else, therefor I have respect and friendship, which makes me a better soldier, except I'm all alone, which makes me a better soldier." WHAT!? indeed. Either having respect and friendship make better soldiers <i>or</i> being lonely and untrusting make better soldiers. It cannot be both. Because those two sets do not go together! (Afraid and angry are possible while having respect and friendship.)<br /><br /><br />The teachers are the enemy, the other trainees are the enemy. Could some one please remind Ender that, no, the <i>Formics</i> are the enemy. (Except they aren't actually either. You know, if I thought that was supposed to be foreshadowing or something, it would actually be kind of clever. But I don't, so it's not. *bangs head on desk*)depizannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-74459169998635787262013-09-08T18:14:03.972-04:002013-09-08T18:14:03.972-04:00All of the really great leaders I can think of sha...All of the really great leaders I can think of share several characteristics, none of which are infallibility and none of which I have noticed Ender displaying.<br /><br />One: they all seem to have had both a vision and a really strong drive to make that vision happen.<br />Two: they were planners. They thought stuff out ahead of time and tried to figure out what could go wrong and how to deal with it.<br /><br />Three: they were quick to change what they were doing when things went wrong. There are several factors that go into this. You've got to be able to admit that things are going wrong. You've got to be able to notice when things start to go wrong. You've got to be able to make good decisions about how to fix what is going wrong.<br /><br /> All of the leaders I am thinking of tended to be successful as long as they kept in mind that they were in fact not infallible. It's when they started letting ego get in the way of good decision making that they failed. <br />For example, Republican Rome had a history of murdering prominent people who inspired enough hate in their opposition but Julius Caesar's ego demanded he not make use of a bodyguard. I can think of two leaders who proved that ego does not win when pitted against Russian winters. While ego didn't actually kill Alexander the Great, it did ensure that his empire disintegrated when he chose not to ensure the succession.Kaynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-22701322847855949482013-09-08T16:16:47.299-04:002013-09-08T16:16:47.299-04:00['Kid'. Ender is nine, Bean is six or sev...<em>['Kid'. Ender is nine, Bean is six or seven at this point.] </em><br /><br />I don't know, that doesn't seem so weird to me. I distinctly recall meeting a group of nine-year-olds when I was eight and being in awe of the advanced age they had achieved. (Not as <em>much</em> awe as the ancient seventeen-year-old, yes, but awe.)<br /><br /><em>"This soldier's name is Bean, sir." </em><br /><br />Oh god, are they doing that thing where they don't let you use first-person-singular in the hopes that your sense of individuality will atrophy? (Wait, why would they do that for proto-generals? These aren't supposed to be faceless mooks.)<br /><br /><em>It also made him lonely, afraid, angry, untrusting. And maybe those traits, too, made him a better soldier.</em><br /><br />But, but, but...*points at previous paragraph of comment*<br /><br />(Also, not being assimilated into the hivemind /= lonely and untrusting, despite what the Borg will tell you.)Brin Bellwayhttp://brin-bellway.tumblr.com/noreply@blogger.com