tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post3235348210007792551..comments2023-11-05T04:09:53.857-05:00Comments on Something Short and Snappy: Punching Upwards: Rape and ComedyErika The Over Queenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03649072707709302370noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-18131907895695115862013-07-19T14:52:50.309-04:002013-07-19T14:52:50.309-04:00Some very excellent points in here; the 'punch...Some very excellent points in here; the 'punch upwards' one is very good, as is the difference in the two forms of modern comedy. (Didn't Aristotle have a different view of Comedy and Tragedy?) I find it difficult to see why certain people have problems with comedy that does not make fun of the victim.<br /><br />I really liked, as issue-ridden as it can be, the play <i>The Fantastiks.</i> It holds a special place for me because I really enjoyed being in it in high school. But it has a song in it, a really problematically-titled song. Even though it uses the term 'rape' in the sense of 'abduction' a la <i>The Rape of the Lock,</i> and if you just ignore how much the word 'rape' is used in it and replace it with the word 'kidnap' or 'abduction' it's actually a fairly funny song... and at that point it's starting to feel like reaching. (Before <i>The Fantasticks</i> ended its run on Sullivan St. in NYC (and the theater was bulldozed to make way for condos, WTF) they had changed some of the lyrics a bit, but when the first three lines is the singer belting out a wide operatic scale with the word 'Rape,' there's not a lot that can be done to change the lyrics within the music.)VMinknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-5555828873538787062013-07-18T16:25:53.635-04:002013-07-18T16:25:53.635-04:00I think Patton Oswald was the one who said "p...I think Patton Oswald was the one who said "punch upwards" in his note to self thing, but I don't remember for sure. Too lazy to google right now.<br /><br /><br /><br />I was pretty subversive when I was selling show tickets (and to be fair to my employer I also tried to steer people TOWARD better comedians and shows). But I'm not the only one. I had a second job ushering shows on the weekends (which was considered extra, you got paid AND you got to see the show, so you could sign up for them or not depending on if you wanted to see a particular person) and every time Andrew Dice Clay would come to town EVERY female usher would somehow not sign up to work that show. Because when you're an usher, you have to stay inside and man the doors and listen to the routine. Sometimes twice a night. Because yeah. I worked his show once because I needed the money. After that, there wasn't enough money in the world to get me in that showroom again.Charles Raniernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-20584906747712487272013-07-18T15:54:28.066-04:002013-07-18T15:54:28.066-04:00First time comment, here. I wanted to say thank y...First time comment, here. I wanted to say thank you for this.<br /><br /><br />As a survivor of multiple rapes, I suspect that rapists tend to rape a lot more than five women each. Nevertheless, them feeling supported even if they've 'only' raped one is too much.<br /><br /><br />Rape 'humor' has kept me out of comedy clubs entirely - my one attempt to go to one was rather truncated when the first comic was waxing rhapsodic about the different ways to coerce sex without actually forcing it. I got up and left, doing my best to ignore the heckling from the 'comedian' i was fleeing. Kudos to Mr. Ranier above for keeping people away from Tosh's show.<br /><br /><br />I do think that harmful rape 'humor' is inextricably tied with the commodification of sex. People who think of sex as something two (or more, who cares?) people agree to and have fun doing together, do not, in my experience, find victim-baiting funny. In a culture where sex is a mutual activity, victim-baiting would be no more funny than a story about forcing someone to play basketball with you. <br /><br /><br />I don't know how to move the cultural construct of sex from something you 'have' to something you 'do'. But i do think that as long as sex is viewed by a significant portion of society as a thing to be won or bought or traded, then there will be those who think taking it by any means possible is just fine.<br /><br /><br />Anyway, I just found this blog recently. I rather enjoy your brand of humor, and Will's as well.LeighMac74noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-67920315658208521742013-07-18T14:06:06.640-04:002013-07-18T14:06:06.640-04:00I actually still see a lot of pretty blatant race ...I actually still see a lot of pretty blatant race humor, and not all of it following the whole "punch up" rule. It's just a bit more nuances and subtle (sometimes). I've also noticed a trend of POC basing their entire routine on their race, which is fine, but they're usually trying to get the audience to laugh at them, not with them, which I have complicated feelings on.CleverNamePendinghttp://www.somethingshortandsnappy.blogspot.ca/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-90541125387253838572013-07-18T13:56:44.564-04:002013-07-18T13:56:44.564-04:00You're kind of my hero for actively trying to ...You're kind of my hero for actively trying to talk people OUT of seeing Tosh, and I think the phrase "Punch upwards" actually sums a lot of what I say up incredibly well.CleverNamePendinghttp://www.somethingshortandsnappy.blogspot.ca/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-74081696763389125522013-07-18T10:12:28.450-04:002013-07-18T10:12:28.450-04:00A) Yes.
B) This all reminds me of "If You C...A) Yes.<br /><br /><br />B) This all reminds me of "If You Could See Her Through My Eyes", in <i>Cabaret</i>. The MC sings a love song to a gorilla, and, at the end, finishes, "If you could see her through my eyes -- <i>she wouldn't look Jewish at all</i>. It's exploiting the ugly and selfish parts of the culture, while reinforcing them, and helping the audience to feel superior to an out-group. No one would openly use that frank of an anti-Semitic joke now, or any of the appalling "n-word" jokes I remember from the 1950s, but women are still fair game.<br /><br /><br />C) Preach it. This only changes if people are not allowed to look away or to be complicit.Liddle-Oldmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2946534773407276339.post-82057633568624444252013-07-18T07:42:47.991-04:002013-07-18T07:42:47.991-04:00Good article. I have two thoughts about comedy and...Good article. I have two thoughts about comedy and rape. Bear with me.<br /><br />When Tosh did his public ass showing, I was working for the Mirage at the time and he was a scheduled headliner coming up. Even though it was my job to sell tickets to his show, and to upsell his show to people seeing other shows, I not only steered people away from him but I also did my best to dissuade people from seeing him, even if they called in specifically for him. I have no regrets about this. I don't know how much I cost him in the end, but I know I did. I don't work for them anymore but that was even more satisfying than talking people out of seeing Criss Angel's show because damn.<br /><br />Conversely: I also was at a comedy club at the Palms once where the main act was Kevin James. He went on last and the people in front of him were so bad that by the time he got on stage the audience was in no mood for anything and James wasn't able to turn them back to his side. So he starts in on the most horrific shocking disgusting sexual based routine --with the rape joke punchline at the end-- ever and I swear it was like setting off a small nuke in the room. Every single woman in the audience (and I was in the front, so we were trapped up there -- nothing says "make me a target" like getting up in the middle of a guy's routine) turned that one color and the guys were all "thanks you just ruined my vacation, she's never getting that image out of her head and I'll never be able to convince her to go to a comedy club again" and we all left angry and that is why to this day Kevin James could be in the next Star Wars movie for all I know and I will not pay one fucking dime to see it. <br /><br />Comedy is a weapon but the rule is Punch Upward. Do not punch down. Someone recently observed that the more famous you get the fewer upward targets you have and your job gets harder-- which is as it should be.Charles Raniernoreply@blogger.com